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I want to talk about sexual quantity vs quality today – but not the way we usually do. This is not about the argument some couples have, with her being all about quality while he is starving and only cares about greater quantity.
What I want to discuss is how quantity of sex affects quality for a man. I realise some of you have never had the reasonable minimum amount of sex in your marriage, and this will be academic for you.
Let’s say you could fairly easily have sex a dozen times a week. Any more than that and you would not feel desire, and might struggle to get fully erect or to climax in a reasonable amount of time. It’s not the absolute max you could do, but it’s the comfortable limit. I realise for some that number is higher, and for many it’s lower; I’m just using it so we can talk about it.
If twelve is the max, then how often should you have sex for the best possible sex?
If you did it once a week, you would be extremely horny. Your climax would be great, but it would probably happen rather quickly, and you would find it difficult to slow down and enjoy the journey. You would have great physical pleasure but very little emotional and mental pleasure. That doesn’t sound like quality sex to me.
If you went for the full dozen, you would have better staying power and would not be frustrated if it took a while. But there would be less passion, and your orgasms would be on the weak side. More emotional and mental pleasure, but not a great deal of physical pleasure. That doesn’t sound like quality either.
Somewhere between one and twelve times a week is a place where passion is strong, you can enjoy the entire sex act, and your climax is excellent. This combination of mental, emotional, and physical pleasure is what I would call quality sex. I’d guess that number would be four to six times a week for a man who could go a dozen times a week.
Part of the equation here is how often you need to ejaculate to feel satisfied, and that won’t be the same for every man. The greatest sex is probably going to come from doing it just a bit more frequently than you need release.
All of this is to suggest some of you may be having more sex than is ideal. Perhaps a bit less would mean you would enjoy it more. Your wife might also enjoy it more. Alternatively, once in a while you might intentionally go an extra day or two, knowing it will make it far more enjoyable.
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What??? My first wife was up for it any time. When my jogging program resumed one time, she complained that when the jogging started, the sex stopped.
On the occasion of our 25th wedding anniversary, we got together two times that night. I brought breakfast to the room the next morning and after eating, we got together again. I DO NOT remember any diminution of fun or pleasure with all of that. AND it has left me with a wonderful memory.
Bragging or not, it’s true. And it was far, far, FAR better than this sexless existence that is my current consignment.
@Ol’ Will – Of course you were younger then, which makes a difference.
I suspect variety is the key. Some three times in twelve hours, and some incredible after a couple of days without.
We went to a counselor (My second wife and I), and he talked about everything but what I considered to be a big problem – sex. I had hoped he would use the Bible to show Mrs. Ol’ Will that our sex life is a sin. We had not agreed to separate for a time of prayer and then come together in marital bliss. 1Cor 7:1-5 (NKJV).
The counselor asked me how often I thought would be the right frequency. I thought, “What a stupid question!” I said to him, if your take a guy who’s been chronically under-fed, who is hungry all the time, and ask him how much food does he want, his answer is likely to be that you could start with an elephant.
I was hoping he would use all the “sex” passages in the Bible and tell her to get with the program (God’s Program for spouses), but he never really addressed the problem. I can only guess he thought that, if he counseled according to the Bible, Mrs. Ol’ Will would not let us come back, and he would lose that revenue stream. Well he lost it anyway. One week, after months of no progress, I refused to come back.
The bible passages you were talking about were said to a specific community, married people who declared themselves celibate in service to God, Paul told them sex in marriage is good, but it was not a command. It is not a sin to not have sex any time your husband wants sex, a woman does not owe a man the use of her body. Your response to how much is enough was really immature, you wanted him to tell your wife she needed to get with what program, obligation sex? Sex is supposed to be mutual, your body is hers, hers is yours, it is not a taking, it is a mutual, intimate, loving act of joining together, where both men and women should feel pleasure, not resentment.
If your counselor talked about “everything” other than sex you have to realize that a good sex life comes from a good marriage. If your marriage is not good, the sex won’t be either. Going to a counselor expecting him to fix your wife, threaten her with bible versus so she does what you want, and not reflecting on yourself is why you had no progress.
@S – You are reading into that passage. Yes, Paul was addressing a specific issue, but he made a blanket statement. He was repeating a belief that was strong amount the Jews, and is supported by several OT passages.
What you seem to be missing is this cuts both ways. Both men and women have given themselves in marriage, and as such are not allowed to neglect sex. The passage very much makes it mutual.
I agree that a good sex life flows from a good marriage, but it works both ways. And in some cases one spouse is unwilling to do what it takes to have a good sex life, regardless of the condition of the marriage.
You should also realise the man you are talking to had a good marriage and sex life in his first marriage. He knows how it should be, and he has proven he knows how to make it happen.
I think you are reading more into the verses then what is there because you want to believe your are owed something you are not.
This man, who maybe had a good marriage before, at least that’s what he claimed, went to counseling expecting his wife to be scolded into having more sex with him, that’s not showing he knows how to be a good husband. He did not go with the intention of listening and learning with her, he went wanting his wife to be told she was in sin and being upset that she was not put in her place. You can’t have a good sex life if your marriage is suffering. Marriage is a whole lot more than just sex, the focus of . PS I’m a happily married woman, with a husband I adore and who adores me back. I don’t hate men, or sex and I think men need to start realizing women don’t like having their autonomy taken away because men claim wants are needs.
@S – In the Greek the word used is a debt. So I’m actually stating less harshly than Paul did.
As for owed, it’s a two-way street. I owe my wife good sex. Not just sex, GOOD sex. As I have explained here often, that means a lot of things, most of which have nothing to do with sex.
I agree men have misused this verse, but the solution is to use it rightly, not reject it.
Yes, marriage is a lot more than JUST sex. But it’s also sex, and one can’t ignore that reality with hyperbolae.
As to wants and needs, based on your definition, hearing “I love you” is a want not a need. Likewise for most of what you expect of your husband. On the other hand, if we see needs as things a marriage must have to be healthy, that’s a long list, and sex is on the list.
Amen.
Ask the women who are the higher drive spouse if hearing “I love you,” spending quality time together, (and all the other things low drive women say should be enough for their high drive husbands) is enough for them. It isn’t a dirty men thing. It isn’t a selfish thing. It’s key to a strong healthy marriage. There are exceptions such as injury that renders sex impossible that must taken a they come but those are just that, exceptions to the design. You can have everything else down perfect by the standards a good, experienced professional counselor and without sufficient quantity and quality sex the marriage is still unhealthy. In such a case one of the spouses is almost invariably miserable and it often ends in divorce when they simply cannot live that way any longer.
I don’t think Paul is adding anything to the Scripture. The Bible is pretty clear on the subject and that’s after translators made it more acceptable to “conservative” gentile ears. The mandate to not defraud a spouse sexually is much more clearly and obviously there than a lot of the things counselors insist the starving spouse MUST do to make the relationship healthy and “safe” for the one who refuses to take care of the sexual aspect.
And, yes, I do understand the concept of safe and how necessary it truly is. I’ve just seen it used far too much as a cop out and excuse to change the subject when sex came up. Things that make some people feel unsafe would fill multiple volumes and are more than sufficient to keep a spouse busy for the rest of their marriage or lives, whichever ends first, trying to learn and navigate.
Yes, a healthy marriage should have the wonderful relationship with most, if not all, the myriad things counselors and books say. It just doesn’t have the clear Scriptural support that sex has. Nor will it be enough for the vast majority of “higher drive” spouses if the sex issue is allowed a pass.
Sex shouldn’t be mandated? It isn’t as desirable if you “owe” it to your spouse? Agreed. It truly should come from the heart. When it doesn’t is why those verses exist. It is to protect marriages from those men or women who think sex shouldn’t be necessary any more for their spouse. If anyone has a problem with it being mandatory, they’d best think and pray long and hard before they decide that God didn’t know what He was doing.
Is it mandatory to be faithful to one’s spouse? How awful! Is it mandatory to tell the truth? How depressing! Is it mandatory to feed one’s children? Of course it is! It shouldn’t have to be spelled out but it is because we live in a fallen world where people cheat on their spouse, lie, neglect and even abuse their children, AND where, believe it or not, spouses sometimes fail to meet the sexual (and other) needs of the one they married.
If low drive spouses aren’t to be expected to meet the sexual needs of the person they married, then they have no room to expect that spouse to be faithful to them. I’m not advocating those who cheat when neglected. We truly SHOULD be faithful, truthful, provide for our families, etc. We absolutely should! I’m just saying that the spouse who neglects sex and declares that it is less desirable because it is obligated has zero room to complain if their spouse fails to live up to their own obligations.
Sorry to take over your post again, Paul but I have had it to my eyeballs with people saying that we can’t expect the sex that goes with marriage but should rather wait for them to feel like it because obligation isn’t sexy. Well, being abandoned to face temptation alone isn’t sexy either. Testicular aching isn’t sexy either. Having a wet dream while sleeping right next to your wife because she hasn’t deigned to come together with you sexually for so long that your body resorts to nocturnal emissions in to relieve the pressure isn’t sexy either.
I’ll stop before I say something I’ll really regret. It isn’t your fault, Paul or yours, S. It is not my intention to offend or hurt anyone. This is just something I’ve been on the wrong end of for too long.
That is probably right. I would guess having too much sex is like masturbating. It satisfies for a bit, but doesn’t last as long and not as satisfying.
“The greatest sex is probably going to come from doing it just a bit more frequently than you need release. ” I can wish, my wife has always errored on the least you can get by with.